Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

A forum for discussing the VSX and share settings
thenosboss
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by thenosboss » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:55 pm

G'day Marty, I am interrested in your section on the amp output load affecting the input sensitivity.
For an example....if I run my 2 x QW2s over 2 x QW218s per side I would have all amp loads of 4ohms per channel....
If I run a single QW2 over a single QW218 then I assume it would be best to run all speakers at either 4 or 8ohms..????
For 4ohms I would run each 218 cab off one channel of a CS4080....then run both QW2 cabs off a single channel of a CS4080 & CS2000 to give a 4 ohm load....
....Or run the QW2s using one amp channel each at 8ohms & run the QW218 with each woofer on it's own amp channel at 8ohms
...or my least prefered choice would be to run the tops at 8ohms & the subs on 4ohms...then adjust the input sensitivity to suit.
Am I getting this right...???
...any suggestions here would be good...
Thanks....Brad
Brad's Sound Company, Darwin, NT, Australia
8 x QW218, 8 x QW2F, 6 x SP15M
10 x CS4080, 3 x CS3000, 2 x CS2000, 1 x CS800x4, 1 x IPR1600
3 x VSX26, 2 x CEL-2a, 13 x QF131, 2 x PV231
32FX, 24FX, 16FX, Yamaha IM8-32
website: http://www.bradsound.com.au

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manytalnts
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by manytalnts » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:26 pm

What are you guys using for a Multimeter?

Any preferences of Brand / Model?
I was looking at the Fluke 113 as a possibility.

The Fluke Model 10 that Marty had mentioned doesn't seem to be easily available, at least on the used market. :)

Just curious if anyone has found a quick n easy one to use that doesn't have a ton of bells and whistles to get lost in.
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Bartman
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Bartman » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:08 pm

I use a plain pocket size digital multi meter from Radio Shack. I don't know if they still make those or not. Radio Shack doesn't seem to have much of anything left but phones and TV/Radio stuff these days.

ctclark1
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by ctclark1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:24 pm

They do still carry some electronics parts... DMMs, along with soldering irons/solder, etc... Some stores you can even still find XLR connectors (depending on the "tier")
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sandmangc
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by sandmangc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:21 pm

Hi,
i have a set comprising of
peavey fx32
Klark Teknik Square One Graphics EQ
VsX 26
Cs 1400 power (high)
CS 4000 power amp (mid)
CS 4080 power amp (low)
2 pair of versarry 112
1 pair of versarry 218

This set is use for live band in door and I have not line in all the instrument yet.

Problem : After running the system for an hour , the sound drop and the high and mid is totally silenced.

Any one can guide to run thru the setup from the top down.

Thanks

thenosboss
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by thenosboss » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:42 pm

The issue may not be in your VSX26.

If your mixer is from the first FX series, you may have a main output issue. Some of the early models had intermitant failures on the main L-R outputs. Aux and group outputs are not affected.

I would keep an eye on the mixr's output LED meters and VSX26 input LEDs to be certain your VSX is receiving signal...

If your mixer is fine, try switching the VSX off and on again...

Brad
Brad's Sound Company, Darwin, NT, Australia
8 x QW218, 8 x QW2F, 6 x SP15M
10 x CS4080, 3 x CS3000, 2 x CS2000, 1 x CS800x4, 1 x IPR1600
3 x VSX26, 2 x CEL-2a, 13 x QF131, 2 x PV231
32FX, 24FX, 16FX, Yamaha IM8-32
website: http://www.bradsound.com.au

Marty McCann
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Marty McCann » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:20 am

Did you have the proper factory Preset loaded into the VSX-26 for a VersArray 2-Hang?

And are your VersArray 112's the Mark 1 or the Mark 2 series? As the presets are different.

If you did not use the correct factory preset, then you could have suffered catastrophic failure.

Check your ribbons to see if they have broken.
If you have ribbons failures there is a rebuild kit and replacement instructionms available from Peavey parts.

Check your woofers to see that they have not frozen up.
If the woofers have failed you can obtain replacement baskets.



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sandmangc
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by sandmangc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:41 pm

Hi Marty,
Thanks the info.

I did not use the VSX 26 preset.
My setup has 1-3 as sub, 2-4 as mid and 3-6 as high which i download the default and configurate from there.
Occasionally channel b can be much lower than a.
I don't know if the ribbon is broken but there a cracking and broken sound.
The rest is all muddy and bassy and overall volume dropped.

Do you think there is any thing to do with the cables?

Currently i am travelling and i will check the set again when i get back

Thanks

Marty McCann
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Marty McCann » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:30 pm

Did you actually use the Peavey parameters to program the VSX-26? For every combination or number of VR-112 elements, the program changes from the template for a single enclosure.


A Input - Left
B Input - Right
Output 1 - Left Low
Output 2 - Left Mid
Output 3 - Left High
Output 4 - Right Low
Output 5 - Right Mid
Output 6 - Right High

However if you chose to roll your own, you may have stacked the cards against you.

You need to trouble shoot the system to determine the extent of the failure.

Test the Mid's and Highs seperately for each individual VR-112.

I am sorry for your lose.

Ribbon Kits and rebuild instructions are available from Peavey.

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SemperFiSound
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by SemperFiSound » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:49 pm

sandmangc wrote:My setup has 1-3 as sub, 2-4 as mid and 3-6 as high
Is that a typographical mistake? Did you mean "5 & 6" as high?
Because if "3" is Low and you route it to the ribbons - that will be problematic.

Steve
SemperFi Sound; the website
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
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sandmangc
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by sandmangc » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:56 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:
sandmangc wrote:My setup has 1-3 as sub, 2-4 as mid and 3-6 as high
Is that a typographical mistake? Did you mean "5 & 6" as high?
Because if "3" is Low and you route it to the ribbons - that will be problematic.

Steve
Hi,
Problem solved. Only damage is the ribbon on the tweeter.
Can you recommend me an online store where i can order the replacement ribbons?

Thanks

Marty McCann
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Marty McCann » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:01 am

Replacement Ribbon kits are available from Peavey parts as well as a paper on how to change out a ribbon. Each kit contains 2 ribbons as well as spare tension saddles and other parts.

Peaveypro
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Peaveypro » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:11 pm

There not that hard to replace but if your not good at this Id send them to Peavey to be rebuilt and properly tensioned...

I would never operate my system without veryfing whats going where, an easy way to do this is buy a TONEPLUG, it plugs into your Mic jack at the console, on the TONEPLUG is a set of frequencys that will let you check, 2 way, 3 way systems with LO Tones, Midrange Tones and Hi Freq Tones as well as Whitenoise and PinkNoise...its powered by Phantom Power.

GTC TP-1 Tone Plug
No larger than a standard microphone connector, the Tone Plug is a unique audio test instrument capable of generating a variety of test signals for the rapid troubleshooting, analysis and calibration of audio systems and components. Produces 11 distinct audio system test functions including: Five selectable sine wave test tones of 100, 250, 400, 1k and 10kHz, as well as five special function test signals: 40/2400 Hz signal for testing VLF components; a short-duration multi-frequency pulse for adjusting time delays, reverbs, and echo units; an amplitude sweep for adjusting compressors and limiters; and an automatic frequency sequence that repeatedly steps through a series of tones useful for wire tracing. Operates on 48VDC phantom power, so external power is not required.

http://www.parts-express.com/gtc-tp-1-t ... g--245-110

Available at PARTS EXPRESS, Believe me if you dont think your wired or your crossover is not right as you play the Tones youll know instantly....
Don Lanier
Pearl Pro Audio
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thenosboss
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by thenosboss » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:35 am

Due to the inability to purchase CS amps, or any Peavey amps in Australia, last year I invested in some Crown XTi 6002/2002 to run my QW2s while I keep my 8 x CS4080s to drive my 8 x QW218s.... all amps controlled by 2 x VSX26s.

The crown XTi 6002/2002 have an input gain of 37.1dB/32.9dB ... the CS amps are 32dB.... So x40 gain.... The crown amps where set as close as possible to x40 gain... using the method of setting the mixer output at 1 volt to gain 40 volts at the amp output, I tested the rig again today and got 41/42 volts from the Crowns ... the closest I could get with the attenuator's available adjustment.

I decided to check the CS amps... 4 amps per rack, 1 amp per QW218.... amps in parallel, amp inputs daisy chained with XLR male - XLR male cables .... output was down around the 31-32 volt mark on all 4 amps... Isolated one amp.... around 38 volts.... changed output to stereo and 'Hey Presto' we have the required 40 volts....

So it appears that connecting 8 amp channels together is creating a loss of input signal.... some bigger jobs I run 16 amp channels into the 8 subs.

I could have all 16 channels fed by a single aux or mono output from the console, so I will be losing significant input voltage, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can limit the voltage loss....???

Brad
Brad's Sound Company, Darwin, NT, Australia
8 x QW218, 8 x QW2F, 6 x SP15M
10 x CS4080, 3 x CS3000, 2 x CS2000, 1 x CS800x4, 1 x IPR1600
3 x VSX26, 2 x CEL-2a, 13 x QF131, 2 x PV231
32FX, 24FX, 16FX, Yamaha IM8-32
website: http://www.bradsound.com.au

Marty McCann
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Re: Attention All VSX-26/48 Users

Post by Marty McCann » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:04 pm

Some amplifiers have a balanced Thru that is a buffered unity gain stage. While other amplifiers simply have a parallel connection that can indeed cause a problem. In order to know how many amplifiers can have the inputs daisy chained, you must know the source impedance of the mixer's output, and the input impedance of the amplifiers. The source to load impedance needs to have a ratio of 1:10. That is the load or amplifier's input impedance needs to be 10 times greater than the mixer's source output impedance.

Higher quality mixers have the lowest output source impedance 50 Ohms or less. The cheapest mixers can be as high as 330 Ohms (not good at all). The typical source impedance is around 100 Ohms.

The typical input impedance of many power amps is 2.2 kiloOhms. So a mixer that has a 100 Ohm output impedance can drive 22 paralleled inputs of amplifiers with a 2.2 K input (load) impedance. However a mixer with a 330 Ohm output Z and only drive 6 power amplifiers.

The best mixer outputs are those either with a quality transformer or a balanced output consisting of two driving transistors. Some less expensive mixers use OP amplifiers or Integrated circuits in a balanced configuration.

The cheapest method of obtaining a (so called balanced output) is to simply have two 100 Ohm resistors in series to ground. Unfortunately this is not a balanced line voltage wise as one side of the line is -6 dB or 1/2 the voltage of the other side. The best practice for one of these entry level mixers is to add a quality line level DI with a transformer, that will deliver a truly balanced line voltage wise.

Now a quality balanced input circuit in a power amp would have no problem providing the common mode rejection necessary to cancel out unwanted interference such as hum, light dimmer induced noise and RFI (radio frequency interference. However cost cutting approaches to CMRR circuits can have issues. If for instance, the balanced input was done with Integrated Circuits without ferritte beads to choke RFI, the cheap IC balanced input input may have a high CMRR ratio for Hum and Noise, but fail to eliminate all RFI due to the back baised diodes in the substrate of the IC that are used to set the gain of the two balanced circuit sections of the IC, resulting in as much as 40 dB less of CMRR to RFI.

Now here is one that goes real deep. I know of certain DSP devices that employ a driver section to the A to D converters that are NOT balanced voltage wise. One has a 5 Volt voltage rail and the other an 8 Volt rail. This a 4 dB difference. If you drive this DSP engine with the mixer with the output where one is - 6 dB down and it happens to feed the 5 Volt rail then you have a lot less headroom and you will not be using 10 dB as many bits in the D/A, so you do not have equal headroom in the digital domain.

Now back to your situation Brad. Did you measure the voltage of the venue? If the amplifier is rated for 230 VAC and your source is less, then a typical analog amp will put out less power rail to rail, as would the mixer driving the convoy.

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