VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

A forum for discussing the Vypyr series amplifiers, Sanpera footswitches and share settings
GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR 30 Volume Sponge Mod - "Attenuator emulator" + PHO

Post by GRE2608 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 am

Hello AvivX,

as explained in my previous posts this mod is not an actual attenuator. It is really emulating what one would expect to happen if they installed an attenuator on a tube amp. Although I feel that for the VYPYR, it does a lot more...

The biggest problem of the VYPYR 30 (and other VYPYRs from what is reported here) is the rather loud behavior even at low master volume levels. Respectively if a user wants to play at low volume levels, he/she is then forced to reduce the post-gain really low, resulting in loosing the real feature of the post gain which is to balance the resulting output volume between presets. Worst scenario, is that to get some stomp/amp/effect combinations to play at bedroom levels you even need to adjust the post-gain AND pre-gain quite low as the post-gain mutes the whole system below setting 1.

The Volume Sponge Mod, resolves these issues by providing a two stage volume control. The resulting behavior allows the user to "remove" part of the volume output at the first stage with the added pot, leaving the Master Volume pot to control the remaining output between its original 0~13 range, providing an ultra detailed volume control without affecting the purpose of the other presetable adjustments.

Look at this table as the results would probably be more obvious.

Volume Sponge Pot.......Master controlled volume output
@90%.......................0-10% between 0~13
@70%.......................0-30% between 0~13
@50%.......................0-50% between 0~13
...
@ 0%.......................0-100% between 0~13 (as per original behavior).

As you can see, the VYPYR can now be played as silent as a puppy with true pre and post gain control. I hope you realize that, in a sense, this is more or less the resulting effect that a fully variable attenuator would have on a standard tube amp.

BR,
GRE2608

PS. Following your (and other) comments, I'll rename the topic title as I realize that it is causing some confusion.

AvivX
Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:42 pm
Contact:

Re: VYPYR 30 Volume Sponge Mod - "Attenuator emulator" + PHO

Post by AvivX » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:03 am

GRE2608 wrote:Hello AvivX,

as explained in my previous posts this mod is not an actual attenuator. It is really emulating what one would expect to happen if they installed an attenuator on a tube amp. Although I feel that for the VYPYR, it does a lot more...

The biggest problem of the VYPYR 30 (and other VYPYRs from what is reported here) is the rather loud behavior even at low master volume levels. Respectively if a user wants to play at low volume levels, he/she is then forced to reduce the post-gain really low, resulting in loosing the real feature of the post gain which is to balance the resulting output volume between presets. Worst scenario, is that to get some stomp/amp/effect combinations to play at bedroom levels you even need to adjust the post-gain AND pre-gain quite low as the post-gain mutes the whole system below setting 1.

The Volume Sponge Mod, resolves these issues by providing a two stage volume control. The resulting behavior allows the user to "remove" part of the volume output at the first stage with the added pot, leaving the Master Volume pot to control the remaining output between its original 0~13 range, providing an ultra detailed volume control without affecting the purpose of the other presetable adjustments.

Look at this table as the results would probably be more obvious.

Volume Sponge Pot.......Master controlled volume output
@90%.......................0-10% between 0~13
@70%.......................0-30% between 0~13
@50%.......................0-50% between 0~13
...
@ 0%.......................0-100% between 0~13 (as per original behavior).

As you can see, the VYPYR can now be played as silent as a puppy with true pre and post gain control. I hope you realize that, in a sense, this is more or less the resulting effect that a fully variable attenuator would have on a standard tube amp.

BR,
GRE2608

PS. Following your (and other) comments, I'll rename the topic title as I realize that it is causing some confusion.
thanks for the explanation man.
but when i play my vypyr 30w, all of my clean presets are with post gain maxed, because i usually set the gain (of the clean presets) to 12 oclock which reduce of the volume, and the mids are always low, and 50% of the time i use the X Boost to get some extra presence and mid-scoop.
So my clean is always with post gain maxed, so to balance my clean presets and dist presets volume, i have to put the post gain around 12~2 oclock. (the post gain is maxed on green channel with tubescreamer)
the master is always on something like 1 or 1.5
and i use the sanpera 1 pedal to reduce the volume in different situations

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by GRE2608 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:50 am

Dear AvivX,

I think you just made me realize the hidden feature behind my mod.

Why loose the true functionality purpose of pre and post gain to adjust your volume? I am sure that if you tried it yourself you would appreciate the frustration. What if you are forced to use the Master between 0 and 1.5!!! I mean, without the help of a Sanpera?

I have to thank you, thank you, thank you!
Reading your reply made it obvious to me that it is as easy to wire a pedal with a standard potentiometer using the principle of my wiring diagram and get just that... :D

Maybe I should rename the thread again... to something like "Sanpera volume pedal alternative". :mrgreen:
Last edited by GRE2608 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + "Sanpera Volume Alternative"

Post by GRE2608 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:34 am

As mentioned before, patience is not my virtue...

I have prepared the schematic for those who want to try out the pedal version of my mod. The idea is to get a low cost budget pedal and use it instead of a Sanpera for controlling the volume. Of course the Sanpera has a lot more features but for some this might be just what they need.

The wiring is a bit different as the Master pot is now first in line and the pedal comes second. Respectively you set the max volume limit by adjusting your Master Volume and the pedal allows you to handle all of the remainder range.

As an example, if you set your Master to 5, the pedal will provide a 0~5 range etc.

Here is the wiring...
VYPYR.SAN.VOL.PDL.PNG
VYPYR.SAN.VOL.PDL.PNG (25.34 KiB) Viewed 9649 times
...and of course let me know if you need any help.

BR,
GRE2608

AvivX
Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:42 pm
Contact:

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by AvivX » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:20 am

GRE2608 wrote:Dear AvivX,

I think you just made me realize the hidden feature behind my mod.

Why loose the true functionality purpose of pre and post gain to adjust your volume? I am sure that if you tried it yourself you would appreciate the frustration. What if you are forced to use the Master between 0 and 1.5!!! I mean, without the help of a Sanpera?

I have to thank you, thank you, thank you!
Reading your reply made it obvious to me that it is as easy to wire a pedal with a standard potentiometer using the principle of my wiring diagram and get just that... :D

Maybe I should rename the thread again... to something like "Sanpera volume pedal alternative". :mrgreen:
lol you are welcome my friend! :D

User avatar
WashburnTabu
Member
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: Childersburg, Alabama

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by WashburnTabu » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:10 pm

At first reading I thought why not just replace the original volume pot with a 50k pot? Then it occured to me that a 50k mini pot my not have good resolution (ie a small twist would make a large change in volume), by adding another pot you have essentially added a "fine tuner" volume control that would increase the over all pot resolution to obtain that lower volume further up the "dial".

The pre and power amp sections of the vypyrs have the transtube circuitry, so by cranking the volume high you should be able to get that "power tube distortion" simulation. The power sponge is an attempt to get the PTD at lower master volumes. The volume still needs to be pretty high to use the power sponge, so the sponge is not usefull at bedroom levels.
here's the vypyr 75w power amp schematic.
VYPYR 75 POWER AMP.pdf
(121.09 KiB) Downloaded 443 times
Edit: Just looked at the sponge circuit (AKA T-Dynamics!) There is an error on the schematic i think, I could not find P17, but p11 is where it should go. The sponge control has two pots that rotate in opposite values, as one goes up the other goes down. It changes the lm3887 op amp's operating voltage and the power amps transtube ic 4565's output, inversely.
Hope I got all that right!
My name is WT, and I approve this opinion.

Lord High Warlock
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:23 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by Lord High Warlock » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:48 am

Thanks for all the info, GRE2608! I'll definitely let you know when I get around to doing this to my 75!

Cheers! :)
- Warlock/LHW/Rich

Guitars
2011 Gibson Les Paul Studio '50s Tribute
2015 Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE
2016 Peavey AT-200
1964 Goya F-27

Amps
Peavey Vypyr Pro w/ Sanpera Pro
Marshall AS100D & MG10cd
VOX Valvetronix VT80+

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by GRE2608 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:01 am

Thank you all for your replies and comments!

I am really glad people find my work interesting and helpful.

To WashburnTabu: This was my original thought as well but I came to realize it wouldn't really work. A 50k pot would not make any differance to the original behavior. The circuitry is connected is such way that the volume pot is working as a volume pot works on a guitar. Full signal is given in, then, part is sent to ground and part is returned as the desired volume level. As in a guitar, changing the pot to a different value will not affect the volume behavior. By using the extra pot we take part of the original signal, send part of it to ground, then send the remainder to the second pot. The second pot is now handling (in the same manner) a smaller part of the signal providing better resolution to the remainder signal.

Now, from the pdf attached by WashburnTabu I can now surely say that you should leave the Power Sponge pot as is. Only wire a second (extra) pot and the original Master Volume pot as shown in my diagram and you will get the exact same result.

Good luck to all of you modders and I await your success stories!

EDIT: As mentioned before, the Power Sponge would not be of much use to the average user. Respectively, you can remove it from the face, secure it inside (turned in full power) making sure you insulate it properly, fit your extra pot in its position, make the Volume Sponge mod and with some minor work refit the nice and shiny knob on your new pot.

BR,
GRE2608

xaled
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:20 am

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by xaled » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:42 am

Hi GRE2608

Thanks a lot for this mod!

I did the mode on my vypyr 30 this Sunday 10 PM and it works like a charm!

I was a bit confused by your replacement of B20K pot with the standard pot, because pins did not match. But I managed to figure it out anyway, thanks to your extensive description. Now I just read your post again and you discuss it in details. Well it was 10 pm on Sunday.

It is a blessing for my wife and neighbors; they really appreciated your mod yesterday and will appreciate it for the years to come.

Now I can really get this nice amp to work in the bedroom conditions.
Just love it!

P.S. I even registered to the forum just to say thank you :)

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by GRE2608 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:27 pm

Hello xaled,

Sorry for the delay but I was away on holidays for the past few days and I have just seen your message.

I want to thank you for your time to reply on the forum! It really means a lot to me! :D
Your success story will definitely give others more confidence to try the mod!

Best regards and thanks once again!
GRE2608

W4RP1G
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 am

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by W4RP1G » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:33 am

Hi, I just did your mod on my Vypyr 30, except I used a 25k EMG pot(audio taper, I think). Works very well! I really hate how touchy the master volume knob is, so this is a god send for those late-night practice sessions.

I have a few questions though. First off, the attenuation is a little weird when I start to roll it up, like it's jumping to a slightly lower resistance, then it smooths out as I turn the knob more. Is this because of the pot I used, or does this normally happen?

Also, when I turn the regular volume up to 10, it seems to bypass the attenuator. I found that out at 2 am in my apartment :oops: Is that normal as well? And if I decide to change this to the volume pedal mod, will that still be an issue? It's really no big deal now since there's no need to turn the amp up to 10, but this could be a big problem if it happens with the pedal mod.

Other than that, the mod works wonderfully! Please keep up the good work! And in case you or someone else might be wondering, I mounted the attenuator to the front, next to the power switch.

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by GRE2608 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:45 am

Hello W4RP1G,

The "attenuation" behavior is surely a result of the pot you used. I have tried both linear and log/audio pots and admittingly linear behaves best for room levels. Log is still useful for finer adjustments around the middle of the volume range.

Your second comment sounds very strange. Considering the volume pot !follows! the attenuation pot in the circuit path, this is quite unexpected and it is not the behavior I get with my setup.
For me, turning my Volume pot to 10 only gives as much volume as permitted through the adjustment of the Attenuation pot. Please cross-check your wiring and let me know if you need any further help.

I would also appreciate if you post a pic of your "front side pot setup" as a reference for others.

BR,
GRE2608

W4RP1G
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 am

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by W4RP1G » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:42 am

It's hard to imagine that I would mess it up, but I will double check next time I get the itch to take it apart. Do you think I should order a 22k linear pot then? They seems to be pretty uncommon around here. When I search for one on eBay I get mostly sellers in the UK(I'm in the US). I believe I have some EMG 25k linear taper pots, I could try that out and see if that fixes any of my issues. Also, could I keep my existing "attentuator" and add the volume pedal mod as well, or are they incompatible?

Here are some pics of where I put the mod. This only works if it's been "defanged". I didn't really plan it this way, but I'm fairly certain that if I were to put the fangs back on they would cover the hole.

Image
Image
Image

GRE2608
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by GRE2608 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:03 am

Hello again W4RP1G,

firstly I want to thank you for posting the pics!

As for the linear pots you could easily get a linear pot at any electronics store. Don't look for guitar related hardware only. Any 22k LIN pot would do the job.

Now, to get the triple Volume control all you have to do is to make an additional loop through the pedal pot. If you look at my schematics you will realize the whole concept...

1. Get the full signal from VYPYR volume control circuit.
2. Feed it in a pot and send some to ground. (Attenuator)
3. Send the remainder to a second pot which again sends some to ground. (Volume)
4. Return the final remainder to the VYPYR volume control circuit.

If you get this logic nothing stop you from adding another pot (Pedal) between steps 3 & 4 and have it control the same signal.

You could then do the following:
Adjust your "Att" to the desired maximum, set your Volume at max and control the range from the pedal. You could even... firstly set your "Att" pot, then set another portion via Volume say 50%, and control the remainder via pedal. Its the same control loop again and again.

Do note that depending on the pedal manufacturer you might decide/need to replace the original pedal pot with a 22k LIN pot as well.

Well, I hope my description has been helpful and I'm always here if you need any clarifications.

BR,
GRE2608

W4RP1G
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 am

Re: VYPYR "Volume Sponge Mod" + !!! "Volume Pedal Mod" !!!

Post by W4RP1G » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 am

Yeah that makes sense. I guess I'll to keep an eye out for a cheap volume pedal, and order a few linear 22k pots. Thanks for all of your advice!

Post Reply