1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

This forum is for talking about all kinds of Peavey power amplifiers.
philmguitar
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:27 pm

1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by philmguitar » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:07 am

I am after a 1500 watts rms 4 ohms amp to power a pair of ul215s. Any recommendations struggling to find something suitable. Maybe I need two amps on bridged to get the power needed?

Cagey
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:35 am
Location: Florida CSA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Cagey » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:00 am

Most reasonably priced power amps top out at a thousands watts per channel.

If you want more power per channel then expect price to climb significantly. Crown sells an amp that will deliver it, but it is over $8,500.00.

https://www.canalsoundlight.com/product/crown-it9000hd/

If you are on a budget, search out used power amps on craigslist and offerup etc. for amps in your local area for sale so you don't have to get into paying for shipping. Just find one locally and pick it up.

I get used Crown amps for under $150 each average.

When you search for that much power, more than likely it will be high speed MOSFET technology which is the most efficient at creating that kind of power in one box.

That said, as an old soundman and former dealer for top brand names, I would recommend top brand names for amps like Crown, QSC. Crest.

You can get by with lesser brands like Behringer makes a 1,000 watt per channel amp called the Europower series. I have a couple of these installed now and work fine, but its when these lesser brands needs servicing is where the problems start. Crown backs their amps. QSC backs their amps. Some companies do not want to hear from you when repairs are needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Europo ... B001U5JFNM

Another alternative I do not recommend but bring to your attention are the new cheap chinese off brand amplifiers they are making and flooding into USA with. But if money and budget is an issue, we all need to keep in mind that most of our good brand names are also made in China. And we all know the chinese steal corporate secrets and then use them for profit. So be aware the chinese have lots of high powered amps for cheap prices.

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/1500-w ... ifier.html

These amps are use and toss when they blow. Trying to repair a cheap chinese amp will be an effort of futility. I've been down this road myself. Got amps in garage now for nothing more than parting out. You will not find the company who made it. You can't call them to talk to them. You can't ask for information or service manuals, and a lot of their semiconductors are now in house numbering system we can't identify or match over here and they are doing this on purpose too. I can't take semiconductors out of these cheap off brand chinese amps and use them in other amps. Don't know their specs, can't tell their quality. So its buy, use, and toss and get another one and move on.

Also when you bridge an amp, it usually goes to 8 ohms, so if you need 4 ohms then you will have to seek amps that are stable into low impedance loads of 2 ohms per channel so you will OK at 4 ohms bridged.

Speakon connectors are rated at 30 amps each, so they can barely handle what you are asking of them. You are pushing limits with this request!

Another issue to be concerned with this much power on one line are the connectors. They have to be able to handle that much current and heat. Take for example a 1970's Peavey CS-800 power amplifier is rated to deliver a maximum of 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms, or 40 volts maximum into 4 ohms. That is around 10 amps of current just on 400 watts of audio power.

1/4 inch connectors are not made for this. Speakons are what we commonly use, but I will have to check their rating to see if they also can handle this much current and power.

If you really need that much power on one line, you may have to bridge one or more to get you there. Let us know how it goes!

And shortly, you might expect another degree waving commenter to arrive with a boat load of useless irrelevant expert words. Wait for it.... wait for it....

Stryker57
Member
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 am
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Stryker57 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:02 am

so should they now not post because the newly 1-2 month self ordained knowitall has spoken so there fore all opinions shall be illegal?
get over yourself...
now if you want 1400 watts at 4 ohms, then thats what you go out and pay for, ipr 5000 should handle that and i believe a cs4000 gives around 1350 w at 4 ohms.
i wouldnt personally drop to 2 ohms ,
yes you can but i always planned for 4 ohm max
and if i had a break down during a gig i couple then load a 2 ohm on an amp and finish the night.
plus other reasons but thats my main reason i dont.

anyway remember the motto wrong equipment at the right price is still the wrong equipment
buy what you need one time. , there is no short cut , lol as they say here.... buy once cry once.

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:17 am

Cagey wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:00 am


(1) Speakon connectors are rated at 30 amps each, so they can barely handle what you are asking of them. You are pushing limits with this request!

Another issue to be concerned with this much power on one line are the connectors. They have to be able to handle that much current and heat. Take for example a 1970's Peavey CS-800 power amplifier is rated to deliver a maximum of 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms, or 40 volts maximum into 4 ohms. That is around 10 amps of current just on 400 watts of audio power.

(2) 1/4 inch connectors are not made for this. Speakons are what we commonly use, but I will have to check their rating to see if they also can handle this much current and power.

Just for general information. Hope it is not me you are waiting for......

(1) To get 1500 watts into a 4 ohm load you need to have 77.5 volts coming out of a power amp and an amp that will supply this reliably. 77.5 volts with 1500 watts of power into a 4-ohm load is 19.35 amps. That gives you 33 or so percent safety margin of the 30 amp max draw on a speakon connecter. That 30-amp draw is based on continuous voltage and should be considered when music contains large rms swings.

(2) Peavey and a few other manufacturers came out with a dual pin 1/4-inch outs that handled more power. The jack had 2 pins that connected to the Tip and ground on the 1/4-inch plug. The older Peavey amps as you correctly stated did not have these. I don't know which peavey amps had these although I seem to remember CS800(S) amps did although that was some time ago.... I believe a standard, good quality 1/4-inch old style jack was rated for 600 watts as a reference. More voltage/wattage produced than that and there was a possibility the current would arc between the tip and ground. I honestly don't know how much power the dual Speakon/1/4-inch combo jacks can handle when using the 1/4-inch input in these. These seem to be the standard for many different amps being offered from manufactures at this level. I always use speakon whenever possible for the very reason you posted though.

Although an "audiophile" kind of jack and all the hype behind it you can see how there is 2 pins to make contact with the tip and ground. This lets more current flow with less resistance to reduce the chances of tip to ground arcs. https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Tone-Multi- ... 8491&psc=1


Doug

philmguitar
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by philmguitar » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:02 pm

Thanks so much for all this info, I will digest it. I currently have a pv2600 running the subs, I assume I’m getting 900w rms. I get a little confused when talking volts. I also get confused now they are using burst rates etc, I always used to think rms.

For tops I have a ipr2 3000 my understanding at 4ohms it’s only 650w rms but that seems to way out power the subs at 900w.

A pv3800 at 4ohms is 1300w rms I was wondering if that would make enough difference and if speakon cable would be fine with that.

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:34 pm

philmguitar wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:02 pm
Thanks so much for all this info, I will digest it. I currently have a pv2600 running the subs, I assume I’m getting 900w rms. I get a little confused when talking volts. I also get confused now they are using burst rates etc, I always used to think rms.

For tops I have a ipr2 3000 my understanding at 4ohms it’s only 650w rms but that seems to way out power the subs at 900w.

A pv3800 at 4ohms is 1300w rms I was wondering if that would make enough difference and if speakon cable would be fine with that.
You are currently using a PV2600 amp that is 900 watts output with a 4-ohm load. I owned 2 of those for some time and felt they worked well. I liked them overall. A PV3800 is 1300 watts with a 4 0hm load. Most people feel to get a change in volume that can be noticed and worth doing you need to go up or down 3dbs. In order to get 3dbs up or down in volume you need to Double the amp wattage or cut it in half. If you went from 900 watts to 1800 watts your sub would get 3dbs louder. Go from 900 watts to 450 watts the sub would go down in output 3dbs. Again, 3dbs is enough an average person would say they heard a level change in a signal and for me enough to make it worthwhile to do but that is just my opinion. Going from 900 watts to 1300 is *roughly* a 1.6db change. Is this enough for what you are looking for?

Now on the positive side if you are flashing the DDT light on the Pv2600 quite a bit but the output is enough by going to the PV3800 you can have the same output but not squash the dynamics some and have some headroom by not hitting the DDT which may sound better. Regardless of the amp you're using be sure to find out the useable low frequency limit of the subs and use the subsonic filter on the power amps if so equipped.

One negative side of increasing the wattage to the subs. The voice coils in the subs change impedance as they heat up. As you add more voltage the impedance of the sub's changes from a 4-ohm nominal load to 5 ohms as an "example". This is called Power Compression. It may warrant a google search if you want to do some reading on it. The amp now produces less wattage with the changed impedance. Of course, no way to tell unless it was measured but the extra output you gain from going from 900 watts to 1300 or even 1800 watts may be used up in power compression in the dropping speakers output with heat.

I didn't look at your subs spec's but if they are rated at 1500 watts rms is there a % of power compression spec given at this input? This 1500 watts may be before the onset of power compression or within a certain percentage of it. If you had that spec you could better factor if the 1.6db step up in output and possible headroom a larger amp will give you is what you are looking for.

If you doubled your current setup, 2 PV2600 amps and 4 subs and the subs were properly coupled you would gain 6dbs of output. 3 for double the wattage and 3 for double the surface area. This to me would be a worthwhile change. 1.6dbs is really cutting hairs but again it is all what you are looking for and expect/need.

Kindest Regards;
Doug

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:42 pm

philmguitar wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:02 pm
Thanks so much for all this info, I will digest it. I currently have a pv2600 running the subs, I assume I’m getting 900w rms. I get a little confused when talking volts. I also get confused now they are using burst rates etc, I always used to think rms.

For tops I have a ipr2 3000 my understanding at 4ohms it’s only 650w rms but that seems to way out power the subs at 900w.

A pv3800 at 4ohms is 1300w rms I was wondering if that would make enough difference and if speakon cable would be fine with that.
Forgot to add. As far as the Speakon connection with a power amp. Sometimes it is best to think of things in terms of a lawyer. At least in the USA there is electrical codes that need to be followed and passed before any electrical device can be sold and labeled as passed. This would include properly spec'ed speakon connectors. If substandard connectors were used, then the amp would not pass these basic tests. If the connectors in the amp were not correctly spec'd then possible fire, melting of the connector or bodily harm could occur to a person. If a fire was started in a club with an incorrectly designed amp, it may be possible the amp company many be liable for the damages or even deaths incurred. With Peavey being a company that has been in business for a very long time I would believe they would know this and make sure the amp and all the input/outputs would be up to code because of this. As long as the speakon cables are the correct gauge, and the connectors are genuine, quality connectors, for me I would use any Peavey amp and have no worries that the speakon jack is properly designed to handle the current the amp is putting out. To not have the properly designed connector on an amp could be a very expensive mistake for an amp manufacture to make. With all the years I've known Peavey and used their products I just don't see them doing this. ;-)

Doug

philmguitar
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by philmguitar » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:23 pm

Dookie wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:34 pm
.

I didn't look at your subs spec's but if they are rated at 1500 watts rms is there a % of power compression spec given at this input? This 1500 watts may be before the onset of power compression or within a certain percentage of it. If you had that spec you could better factor if the 1.6db step up in output and possible headroom a larger amp will give you is what you are looking for.

Kindest Regards;
Doug
[/quote]

Thanks again for you help.

This is the only spec I can find:
1000 Watts RMS continuous, 2000 Watts program.
4 Ohms.
* Frequency response: 48 Hz - 1 kHz.
* Efficiency: 101dB.
* Two Neutrik® Speakon® connectors.
* Bi-amp operation only.

I don’t really have room for more speakers so was hoping to gain more bottom end volume by increasing the power for the subs. I don’t tend currently have the DDT coming on too often when using the pv2600 low cut 40hz on. The Kick drum is at pretty much 0 db on the channel slider master output is at 0db. Would be nice to have a bit more room to turn up the kick if needed.

Stryker57
Member
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 am
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Stryker57 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:52 pm

if you place the 2 subs in the center on the floor and you keep the upper stacks on the left and right of the band. ,,,,
ie side by side (cabinets touching) you will gain an increase in low end,
I know it doesnt look as cool as a sub and a stack on each side. but it works ,

the 0db on sliders doesnt mean your getting the power amp at 100%, you also have to have your preamp gain set correctly. to low and your not getting a good signal , to hot and you'll clip things which can and will cause bad things to happen down the signal chain,

this also goes to the power amp side, just because you turn the power amp down doesnt mean they wont put out full wattage.



in the mid 1980s for bars ... we used to get a pretty good thump from a single fh1 sub per side on one channel of cs 800
so as long as your not playing outside you might have enough power already
( but nothing wrong with more power)
playing outside we would add another cs 800 and the fh2

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:07 pm

philmguitar wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:23 pm
Dookie wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:34 pm
.

I didn't look at your subs spec's but if they are rated at 1500 watts rms is there a % of power compression spec given at this input? This 1500 watts may be before the onset of power compression or within a certain percentage of it. If you had that spec you could better factor if the 1.6db step up in output and possible headroom a larger amp will give you is what you are looking for.

Kindest Regards;
Doug
Thanks again for you help.

This is the only spec I can find:
1000 Watts RMS continuous, 2000 Watts program.
4 Ohms.
* Frequency response: 48 Hz - 1 kHz.
* Efficiency: 101dB.
* Two Neutrik® Speakon® connectors.
* Bi-amp operation only.

I don’t really have room for more speakers so was hoping to gain more bottom end volume by increasing the power for the subs. I don’t tend currently have the DDT coming on too often when using the pv2600 low cut 40hz on. The Kick drum is at pretty much 0 db on the channel slider master output is at 0db. Would be nice to have a bit more room to turn up the kick if needed.
[/quote]

In the case of your subs power rating. 1000 watts rms. I've seen post where Peavey and other manufactures will quote RMS or under for new, or inexperienced operators, somewhere between rms and program for experienced operators and peak wattage for pro's or those who have properly set and operated limiters before the power amp. As you use the 40hz cut and don't often have the amps DDT light come on when in operation, I see you on the high side of the Experienced Operator scale. The PV3800 will give you just a little more. I don't see it as a big step up honestly. Much more power than the PV3800 will start to put you into possible power compression.

When you operate your system do you have the subs on the left and right or in the center? Depending on the room it may be best to have the subs coupled together in the center or both just on one side. It is important to try this room to room as one way may yield much better results in one room compared to the other. It may give you more if you're doing the sub on the left and right setup, or the L/R setup may be better in a room compared to center cluster. Any chance you can try a PV3800 before the purchase? Regardless, other than subwoofer placement, you may have reached the practical output limit of your pa. Additional power may not yield what you are looking for.

Doug

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:08 pm

Stryker57 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:52 pm
if you place the 2 subs in the center on the floor and you keep the upper stacks on the left and right of the band. ,,,,
ie side by side (cabinets touching) you will gain an increase in low end,
I know it doesnt look as cool as a sub and a stack on each side. but it works ,

the 0db on sliders doesnt mean your getting the power amp at 100%, you also have to have your preamp gain set correctly. to low and your not getting a good signal , to hot and you'll clip things which can and will cause bad things to happen down the signal chain,

this also goes to the power amp side, just because you turn the power amp down doesnt mean they wont put out full wattage.



in the mid 1980s for bars ... we used to get a pretty good thump from a single fh1 sub per side on one channel of cs 800
so as long as your not playing outside you might have enough power already
( but nothing wrong with more power)
playing outside we would add another cs 800 and the fh2
Sorry I just missed your post with regards to sub placement. Mine was much the same.
Doug

philmguitar
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by philmguitar » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:45 pm

Brilliant, thanks for the suggestions definitely going to try speaker placement.

I think I may have also sourced a pv3800 to try.

“the 0db on sliders doesnt mean your getting the power amp at 100%, you also have to have your preamp gain set correctly. to low and your not getting a good signal , to hot and you'll clip things which can and will cause bad things to happen down the signal chain”

With setting the preamp gain, I use the PFL on the desk and set to 0db on the meters. Currently I have the pv2600 gain on full.

Dookie
Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Dookie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:36 pm

Post deleted as the good will it was intended to give was not received.
Doug
Last edited by Dookie on Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stryker57
Member
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 am
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Stryker57 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:24 pm

ok then increase the excursion. so i dont get accused of any attacks or defamation and i am considered a foe and blocked, , please ask the expert what all you will need to do to your speakers to increase it. is it a simple addition of a tube and relief to tune the speaker , or a easy rebuild of the cabinet? turn it into a folded horn design?
yes there are many ways to increase low end.

the easiest and what will work with a simple placement adjustment of what you own would be to :couple" them together by placing them beside each other and having them on the ground.
cost to try 0..... time spent to try, 10 minutes?
dont like it spread them back out.

and dookie dont worry, we had the same suggestion because it works, we have learned through the years to make the best of what we have in our hand. there is no crime in that and i will never apologize for sharing what i know ,
but i understand i can always learn something new.
take care

Stryker57
Member
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 am
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio

Re: 1500 watts rms 4 ohms Amp recommendations

Post by Stryker57 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:46 pm

i am good with that , but how would i increase the excursion of an existing speaker and cabinet? i do not have the engineering degree so i have to ask it in terms i understand. i suspect something has to change, and honestly i do not know what you would change.. the speaker? the cabinet? if both stay equal i dont think the result will change.but i will admit i do not know it in the terms you are speaking,

Locked