Biamping Impulse 1015's with CS800s w/speakon module

[c64954]

Hello, new here but not finding anything specific to this issue. I have two impulse 1015's and two cs800s' (https://peavey.com/manuals/80300390.pdf) on the way. I've only managed to locate one S1 speakon output module for the power amps (https://peavey.com/manuals/80304302.pdf), calling a few repair shops to see if I can find another. I also located one x1 crossover module (https://peavey.com/manuals/80300736.pdf) that came along with the s1 output module, but I did not plan on using it since the signal coming to the amps will already be crossed over by a drive rack. The manual for the impulse 1015's (https://peavey.com/manuals/80304762.pdf pg9) even show a biamp wiring graphic with the cs800s which is why I planned on using this amp, but it only provides the detail of the speakon cable wiring. It shows "cs800s equipped with optional x1 crossover module" in the manual, but why would I need a different crossover input module if the incoming signal will already be crossed over? Is it somehow attenuating the signal going to the "high" channel 2?

If you replace the standard output module on the cs800s with the speakon output and set the jumpers for biamp as per the manual, how much wattage will go to each channel? The standard 260w RMS at 8ohm per channel? The horns on the 1015 are only going to handle 240w peak at 8ohm, but judging from the cs800s specs it would be getting 260w continuous at 8ohms. Is the option to simply attenuate with the channel 2 knob on the amp? If a cs800s would be sending more wattage than the 1015's horns can handle, why is that wiring graphic listed in the manual for the speaker?

Sorry if this all sounds dumb, but I just want to understand what we are working with here.

[Dookie]

Greetings. I had 4 CS800s amps for some time. I may have a few crossovers kicking around but not sure if they are X-1's or X-2's. Although you'll get marginal improvements by Bi-Amping the 1015's in all honesty you may find that the overall improvement is debatable. Are you using Subs with your 1015's? I would consider just Bridging 1 CS800S amp per 1015. That would give you around 840 watts available to each speaker. The passive internal crossover is setup for the quadratic horn and does a good job with the required padding and Constant Directivity ( CD horn eq ) needed. The speakers are rated at 1000 watts program so a bridged CS800s per speaker will give you close to program rating. Just don't push hard and only an occasional flash of the DDT lights. The added headroom and 4 or so db's louder is worth more , at least to me , than Bi-Amping them at 240 watts to the woofer and 240 watts to the horn. With the CD horn requiring CD Horn Eq Peavey often recommends Peak power available for horns just for headroom. You would Pad the Horn Section in your Speaker DSP processor and have to add CD horn eq if you Bi-amp. Also a greater amount of wattage is required in general for the low frequency section. It is not unusual for 100 watts to be going to a woofer when only 10 watts or so is going to the horn. You may have over 200 watts available for your horn but that doesn't mean the signal requires 200 watts to keep up with the woofer.

Remember the usable Low Frequency Limit of these speakers is 68hz. If you have a Low Cut filter available in you crossover units you may want to use it for some subsonic protection.

Just some things to think about.
Doug
https://peavey.com/ItemFiles/Manual/119092_36911.pdf

[c64954]

Edited: duplicate post, sorry

[Bartman]

I agree with everything Dookie said, and will add that since you already have an external crossover/driverack, then you do not need the crossover module for your amps, as that would be counter-productive in addition to redundant. If you can find another S1 output module, that would be great of course, but you can still use the standard output module, either the binding posts or 1/4" jacks. If you bridge the amps, (one per speaker in full-range mode instead of bi-amped) then you must use only the two red binding posts (either with bare wire through the holes at the base, or with banana clips into the tips). If you can get the other S1 output module, that would be best as it is a much more secure connection using speakons.

[c64954]

Awesome, thank you so much for the input guys! It does sound like biamping these would be more trouble than it's worth, I appreciate the explanation. I have subs as well, but I'm not sure if they are the best match for them due to the difference in power handling. I have a pair of subcompact 18's laying around so they want 700w program, but compared to the 1000w program the mains are getting there is a bit of a power difference. I understand that a lot of power is needed to reinforce low end, so would it be worth putting better woofers in those subcompact 18's? Maybe some Pro Riders? I have an amp that could push the proriders without an issue

Greetings. I had 4 CS800s amps for some time. I may have a few crossovers kicking around but not sure if they are X-1's or X-2's. Although you'll get marginal improvements by Bi-Amping the 1015's in all honesty you may find that the overall improvement is debatable. Are you using Subs with your 1015's? I would consider just Bridging 1 CS800S amp per 1015. That would give you around 840 watts available to each speaker. The passive internal crossover is setup for the quadratic horn and does a good job with the required padding and Constant Directivity ( CD horn eq ) needed. The speakers are rated at 1000 watts program so a bridged CS800s per speaker will give you close to program rating. Just don't push hard and only an occasional flash of the DDT lights. The added headroom and 4 or so db's louder is worth more , at least to me , than Bi-Amping them at 240 watts to the woofer and 240 watts to the horn. With the CD horn requiring CD Horn Eq Peavey often recommends Peak power available for horns just for headroom. You would Pad the Horn Section in your Speaker DSP processor and have to add CD horn eq if you Bi-amp. Also a greater amount of wattage is required in general for the low frequency section. It is not unusual for 100 watts to be going to a woofer when only 10 watts or so is going to the horn. You may have over 200 watts available for your horn but that doesn't mean the signal requires 200 watts to keep up with the woofer.

Remember the usable Low Frequency Limit of these speakers is 68hz. If you have a Low Cut filter available in you crossover units you may want to use it for some subsonic protection.

Just some things to think about.
Doug
https://peavey.com/ItemFiles/Manual/119092_36911.pdf

[Bartman]

You would not want to put a ProRider in that subcompact 18. Drivers for one cabinet aren't usually compatible with another cabinet due to Theil-Small parameters (tuning, air-mass movement, volume of air, etc.). Power handling is only one comparison. To see whether or not your subs would match your tops, the speaker efficiency or SPL (Sound Pressure Level, measured in dB) would tell you more. I haven't looked up the numbers, but just as an example, if your tops were rated at 95dB with 1 Watt input measured at 1 Meter distance, and then your subs were rated 99dB (1W/1M) then your subs would be putting out more sound with the same amount of power input, so you wouldn't need as much power for the subs to keep up with the tops. (However, more bass is usually preferable for listening, so the higher sub SPL rating would then "match" well with the top, in what is "pleasing to the ear" even though the power ratings are different.) In the end, so long as you don't over-power or over-extend (frequencies too low which causes the woofer/subwoofer to bottom-out and strike the back of the magnet, or top-out where the driver jumps out of the magnet gap) then just go by how it sounds to you. Trying to squeeze out every last bit of maximum output without damaging things - riding on the edge, is chasing rabbits.

[Dookie]

I've owned a lot of peavey gear including SubCompact 18's. They have a Anechoic Chamber response of 122 db's peak. But that translate into 128 at 1/2 space or sitting on the ground. Your 1015's are rated at 130 db's peak so only a 2 db difference. The low frequency limit is 47 hz which is much lower than your 1015's and with the 1015's up on tripods they will have even less bass output so subs will be a excellent idea with them.

If your tops are on tripods with the subs in the center I would recommend the crossover points to be. Low Cut 45hz 24 db Bessel. High Cut on the subs at 120hz Bessel. Tops 120hz L/R . So the subs will do 45 to 120hz and your tops will do 120hz and above. The Subcompacts sound really good in the 60 to 120hz range and supply a good thump there. I used a bridged CS800X on each one I had with the stock 350 watt Black Widow speaker.

Besides the 2 CS800S amps what amps do you have to run the compacts with?

Although not your speakers the SubCompact 18's always seem to work well coupled together in the center like in this picture or Both on 1 side or the other. The subcompact 18's are a strong , light sub to add some bottom without a lot of fuss.

Doug

There were several different Subcompact 18's. Are these yours? https://peavey.com/manuals/80301953.pdf

[Dookie]

There were these also. I almost think there was one more series but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

https://peavey.com/manuals/8030080.pdf

[c64954]

So a 2db 1w/1m difference between the tops and subs wouldn't make a massive difference here? It seems negligible but I'm obviously not a live sound professional. As far as amps, I actually have a third cs800s I got for almost nothing because it needs repaired, but I haven't been able to get it to the shop. I do have: a behringer ep2500, a qsc mx1500a, and a crown xs900 which all work fine.

I had planned on putting the subs left and right of the stage and having the mains on poles, but eventually maybe ceiling mount (depends on what the owner wants). The "stage" is not really tall enough to lay a sub in the middle, and the owner is probably going to want to keep the middle path open. A picture is attached, whatever speakers those are will be gone. There should be enough room for the subcompacts on the floor to the left and right of the stage, but I'm not sure about all in the middle or one side. And yes, these are the same ones https://peavey.com/manuals/80301953.pdf

This is all a hodgepodge of collected gear, and we are just trying to get something decent enough for some shows. Budget is obviously a factor here, so If these subcompact 18s will keep up just fine with those 1015's with the proper configuration that is fantastic news. I'm not sure what the room sounds like just yet, but it was an old movie theater so hopefully that is advantageous.

I've owned a lot of peavey gear including SubCompact 18's. They have a Anechoic Chamber response of 122 db's peak. But that translate into 128 at 1/2 space or sitting on the ground. Your 1015's are rated at 130 db's peak so only a 2 db difference. The low frequency limit is 47 hz which is much lower than your 1015's and with the 1015's up on tripods they will have even less bass output so subs will be a excellent idea with them.

If your tops are on tripods with the subs in the center I would recommend the crossover points to be. Low Cut 45hz 24 db Bessel. High Cut on the subs at 120hz Bessel. Tops 120hz L/R . So the subs will do 45 to 120hz and your tops will do 120hz and above. The Subcompacts sound really good in the 60 to 120hz range and supply a good thump there. I used a bridged CS800X on each one I had with the stock 350 watt Black Widow speaker.

Besides the 2 CS800S amps what amps do you have to run the compacts with?

Although not your speakers the SubCompact 18's always seem to work well coupled together in the center like in this picture or Both on 1 side or the other. The subcompact 18's are a strong , light sub to add some bottom without a lot of fuss.

Doug

There were several different Subcompact 18's. Are these yours? https://peavey.com/manuals/80301953.pdf

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