How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

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mikehende
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How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:40 am

Hello all, I realize my question is regarding an old Dinosaur but I simply just like these horns. I recently purchased them again for the 2nd time over the years but this time around I am not getting exactly the sound I used to get and can use anyone's help/advice please.

Back in the 90s I had purchased a pair and Atlas PD30 drivers is what they had come with. The drivers used to get me highs which sounded close to a tweeter but sold that rig. Then I got a pair of PEAVEY SP2ti with the RX22 drivers and those gave me clean highs where as many of my friend's had stated "you can hear every instrument clearly and cleanly".

What I would like from the MF1-X horns are what's mentioned above. Thing is, this time when I got the pair the crossovers were rusted and damaged so I am running it through an EQ to a Receiver. I am using a pair of JBL Selenium D220ti drivers which I had lying around here but I would like to try the original drivers which were the 22A and will be getting a pair soon. This time around though I will run the horns through my BSS processor and a DBX EQ and have some questions.

First question is, I am seeing all of these drivers 22, 22A, 22T, 22TI, 22XT, RX-22, 44T, and 44X listed here:

https://peavey.com/c/horn-equalization

Can anyone tell me please which might be the best driver for these horns which will give me the type of highs I am seeking please? If there should be any other not in that list then which ones? Thanks.

Dookie
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by Dookie » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:28 pm

The MFX-1 horn was one of the first speakers out there that required CD Horn Eq and they started with the first generation 22 Driver. This driver went onto the Square Magnet that they were using back then. Do these still have the square magnets in them? The 22A came later with a little increase in the power handling and on up through time.
This square magnet will unscrew from the horn lens and a current RX-22 magnet and driver system will screw right on. If your going to keep the square magnets maybe give Peavey a call and see what they recommend. As an example
https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03 ... tEQAvD_BwE
As I believe you know these horns are Constant Directivity type horns and require CD Horn Eq to sound correct. Look around Peavey Tech Notes for more information on them. https://peavey.com/c/Horn-Equalization
I'd also contact Peavey to see if replacement passive crossover of some sort is still available should you decide to go full range with a FH-1 woofer on the bottom. I owned both the Sp1 and Sp1 "Split" with the MfX-1/FH-1 combination. There is FH-1 subs up for sale from time to time on Ebay type places. Later I added a Altec 15 inch midrange and made a true triamp system.

Doug
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mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:54 am

Hey, thanks for responding and sorry for my late response as i have been having login problems here on this forum for a few days now.

I had been trying to contact Peavey for a week now but guess due to the holidays I will need to wait. I don't expect them to have those internal crossovers but will ask, I first want to try optimizing them via my crossover.

A friend of mine is mailing me a pair of 22A drivers, should get them within the next 7 days but I can't find the manual for the 22A anywhere online.

I have the same Triamp setup but if you can answer a few questions for me based on your experience would be great.

Were you getting enough highs from your horns so was no need to add a tweeter? Also which driver were you using please?

Dookie
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by Dookie » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:56 pm

mikehende wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:54 am
Hey, thanks for responding and sorry for my late response as i have been having login problems here on this forum for a few days now.

I had been trying to contact Peavey for a week now but guess due to the holidays I will need to wait. I don't expect them to have those internal crossovers but will ask, I first want to try optimizing them via my crossover.

A friend of mine is mailing me a pair of 22A drivers, should get them within the next 7 days but I can't find the manual for the 22A anywhere online.

I have the same Triamp setup but if you can answer a few questions for me based on your experience would be great.

Were you getting enough highs from your horns so was no need to add a tweeter? Also which driver were you using please?
My MFX-1's had the original 22 drivers with the square magnets in them. The 22A drivers are pretty much the same. I've found most 22xx drivers are good at least up to 12khz if not a little higher than that. Remember the driver is connected to a CD (Constant Directivity) Lens. Because of this horn design the output decrease as the frequency increases. So CD horn eq gradually adds more highs as the frequency go up. If CD Horn EQ is not used in the high frequency section then the high's would be lacking. With proper CD Horn Eq added to the horn section I thought mine sounded fine for their designed operating range.

https://assets.peavey.com/literature/ma ... 301017.pdf

Doug

mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:00 pm

Thx, when i receive the drivers I will run one side by side with the JBL to compare and will process it through the crossover to see what's the best highs I can get from it. With the JBL I am using all it's missing is the fine highs [hi-hats], I get everything else. I have noticed I have the fine highs but it's volume is low and it decreases further away from the cab so your info is accurate.

I am hoping i might get better results with the fine highs with the original drivers. Whenever I get Peavey tech support I will ask if they can recommend any other driver which might work better.

One other issue I have to address is these horns are way too big for my small 8'h x 10'w x 20'L room as I have to turn up the volume to a certain level to get what I want from it but then it becomes way too loud as I sit only like 6' in front of it. I have been told by a few guys that i should get a much smaller horn to combat this problem so i am looking around for a suitable smaller horn which might have the same tone of highs I get from the Peavey's, this is where I'm at.

If any advice/thoughts i would appreciate it.

mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:57 pm

To update, I finally got Peavey Tech Support, they said they don't have the 22A driver or the diaphram or the crossover for the mf1-x and no manual for the 22A.

I think I made a mistake in purchasing the 22A drivers even though it is the original drivers. he recommended the RX22 which is the drivers i had on the SP2's but wondering if it might be best to sell these horns and get the smaller CH1 horns and RX22 drivers? What mainly worries me about the 22A now is that i would need to use and after market diaphram if a replacement should be needed and also that the RX22 is a much better upgraded driver.

Dookie
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by Dookie » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:27 pm

mikehende wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:57 pm
To update, I finally got Peavey Tech Support, they said they don't have the 22A driver or the diaphram or the crossover for the mf1-x and no manual for the 22A.

I think I made a mistake in purchasing the 22A drivers even though it is the original drivers. he recommended the RX22 which is the drivers i had on the SP2's but wondering if it might be best to sell these horns and get the smaller CH1 horns and RX22 drivers? What mainly worries me about the 22A now is that i would need to use and after market diaphram if a replacement should be needed and also that the RX22 is a much better upgraded driver.
Honestly it sounds like you don't know what you want and even worse you don't know how to get it. I would stop for now and rethink the whole thing. Why such a large PA system in such a small room? Music play back? Live band?
To turn up a 22A driver in the MFX-1 horn lens enclosure enough to damage it in such a small room would mean there is something wrong before the horn. Size of the horn only increases the output. If it's too loud then turn it down. I seem to remember these questions some where before? Facebook?

The MFX-1 horn is from the 70's. Designed for Live Sound reinforcement. It's a brute force large format horn. The smaller CH1 horn is the same design just in a smaller box for more portability. Turning the MFX-1 down a few db's would yield the same results as going to the CH1. I personally wouldn't call a RX22 a 100 miles above the design of the 22A driver. Regardless of the sales pitch. The differences would show up in power handling and a little better response when pushed hard. In your small room would you really push?

I don't know what you have for the rest of your system but the horn section is what it is for a 40 to 50 year old design. Regardless of the Driver you put in it the horn will only do so much. Put a V8 in a Yugo Car and you'll get more power but it's still a Yugo. Sounds to me your trying to get the wrong system to work in your tiny room and quite frankly your not 100 percent sure how to properly set it up either. Maybe find a sound company in your area to give you a hand with it? The top end of your system is a Mack Truck and it sounds to me like you really need is a Lincoln or BMW to cruse down the highway.
Didn't want to be harsh but I don't want you to spend too much money without knowing first it may not give you what you need.

Kindest regards;
Doug

mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:08 pm

Oh no worries at all, I appreciate the advice. I do know what I want which is just to get a little more highs from the horns, I should receive the 22A drivers in a day or so then will know for sure.

As mentioned the SP2's I had with the ch1 horns and RX22 drivers was perfect for my room which is why I know without any doubt that the smaller horns and that driver will work if I can get more highs from them this time by running it through the crossover, will report back on the testing. Thx.

mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:56 am

Well, last night we were able to do the experimenting and finally some clarity. Running that Peavey 22A original driver for the MF1-X horns did the trick, results were far better than with the Selenium D220ti driver. We got all the frequencies of the super tweeter, we were amazed that the 40 year old 22A driver would give that performance so this issue is now very firmly settled.

Here's the thing however, we had run the system back to back through both the Rane Ac23 and the BSS Processor, it was through the Rane that we were able to get that performance out of the 22A while the BSS far outclassed the Rane on the bass. The next and final experiment hopefully on this coming Sunday will be to see if we can get the BSS to get the same performance from the 22A driver.

Dookie
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by Dookie » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:10 pm

mikehende wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:56 am
Well, last night we were able to do the experimenting and finally some clarity. Running that Peavey 22A original driver for the MF1-X horns did the trick, results were far better than with the Selenium D220ti driver. We got all the frequencies of the super tweeter, we were amazed that the 40 year old 22A driver would give that performance so this issue is now very firmly settled.

Here's the thing however, we had run the system back to back through both the Rane Ac23 and the BSS Processor, it was through the Rane that we were able to get that performance out of the 22A while the BSS far outclassed the Rane on the bass. The next and final experiment hopefully on this coming Sunday will be to see if we can get the BSS to get the same performance from the 22A driver.
I used to run a Rane AC22 on my 3 way system pictured above. I don't remember CD horn eq in it. I think I went into the Full Range input of the passive crossover in the MFX-1 to take advantage of the CD horn eq it provided. What BBS model do you have? Many years ago I had a BBS Omni Drive and I seem to remember it had CD Horn EQ in it. Again it has been awhile. Glad to hear your heading in the right direction with your project!
Doug

mikehende
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Re: How to get the best out of MF1-X horn?

Post by mikehende » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am

Yes, my gamble has paid off getting the original 22A drivers.

The AC23 has the CD EQ feature. I now think I may have jumped the gun getting rid of my Ashly XR1001 opting for the Rane as the Ashly had a similar bass to the BSS FDS 388 Omnidrive and comparing the specs of both the rane and the Ashly both has the same features.

Therefore if I had to choose just one Analog unit it would sense to choose the Ashly over the Rane. Our next experiment however will be to see if we can optimize the bass of the Rane and to see if we might get the same highs out of the BSS as the Rane.

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