Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

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Irving
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Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:22 am

I've got an early 1990s Classic 20 combo amp. Great amp but it does break up very early. What would be a good 10" speaker replacement that would give a bit more headroom before breaking up?

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Enzo
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Enzo » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:31 am

I could be wrong, but I suspect the breakup is in the circuitry.

Disconnect the internal speaker and connect a different cab to it as an experiment.

Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:12 am

Enzo wrote:I could be wrong, but I suspect the breakup is in the circuitry.

Disconnect the internal speaker and connect a different cab to it as an experiment.
I don't mean breakup as in something is going wrong. I mean overdrive. The amp overdrives very easily. It's a single channel amp. And distorts as you turn the volume up. This can be a great thing depending upon what you want. But if you want more clean tone at louder volumes it can be difficult with this amp. A speaker with more headroom would change the dynamics of this and allow louder clean volume before breaking up/distorting.

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Enzo
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Enzo » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:03 am

I understood exactly what you meant, and I still do not believe it is the speaker, so I suggested that simple test.

That is only a 20 watt amp, even if we grant it 25 watts for discussion, there are darn few speakers that are over driven by that low power.

In any case, before we can cure a problem, we have to identify its source, so in my shop the first step would be to determine whether the speaker or the amp circuits had the issue.

I never did comparative readings in the C20, but the Classic 30, for example starts to clip in the phase inverter stage when the volume gets up to about 4-5 on the control. The C20 has the same inverter circuit as the C30.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by dalrymple » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

C-20 is DESIGNED to go into a early clip mode. It does what it is designed to do very well: give you that early break-up/grind/sustain that you find is happening too early for your ears. Try some different tubes. This is far more likely to get you more clean headroom over a speaker swap into an amp already breaking up too early. Tubes will ultimately determine how early the amp reacts with grind, and the "grit" of it, for lack of a better term.

What pre amp tubes are in it currently? Also, what power tubes? You can order a set of LATE BREAKUP EL84 from a number of vendors. I would go with a Russian made set(sovtek, Mullard, Tung-sol, etc.) since to my ears they do the best clean tones before breakup. Remember, you want a set that will give you late breakup. Chinese might work too. Dont care for the JJ's on the clean frontier personally. Of course YMMV.

Again, Russian or chinese made pre amp tubes for V1. I like a sovtek 12ax7LPS in v2 of most peavey amps, but swapping around can give you a lot of options, and ALL way cheaper than a new speaker.

Try tube depot or the tube store. Great selection, decent prices and good reviews and testing info.
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Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:54 pm

dalrymple wrote:C-20 is DESIGNED to go into a early clip mode. It does what it is designed to do very well: give you that early break-up/grind/sustain that you find is happening too early for your ears. Try some different tubes. This is far more likely to get you more clean headroom over a speaker swap into an amp already breaking up too early. Tubes will ultimately determine how early the amp reacts with grind, and the "grit" of it, for lack of a better term.

What pre amp tubes are in it currently? Also, what power tubes? You can order a set of LATE BREAKUP EL84 from a number of vendors. I would go with a Russian made set(sovtek, Mullard, Tung-sol, etc.) since to my ears they do the best clean tones before breakup. Remember, you want a set that will give you late breakup. Chinese might work too. Dont care for the JJ's on the clean frontier personally. Of course YMMV.

Again, Russian or chinese made pre amp tubes for V1. I like a sovtek 12ax7LPS in v2 of most peavey amps, but swapping around can give you a lot of options, and ALL way cheaper than a new speaker.

Try tube depot or the tube store. Great selection, decent prices and good reviews and testing info.
Have fun. You CAN clean up your act!
Dalrymple
Yes I believe that you are right. There is nothing wrong with the amp. It's designed to be like this. Also, these classic 20 amps are actually not 20 watts despite being called the "Classic 20". They are 15 watts. I actually recently ordered some new tubes for it that are supposed to give it a bit more headroom. I forget what they are but I'll check.

There have got to be people who upgrade the speaker on a classic 20. I know it was very popular to replace the stock Blue Marvel speaker on the classic 30.

Also, when I plug into an extension cabinet it shuts off the internal speaker and only the extension cabinet is powered. I wonder if there is a way to mod this so that the internal speaker remains powered along with the extension cabinet?

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by dalrymple » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:50 pm

One of the reasons you see fewer 10" speakers replaced is there are very few options available compared to a 12". Dozens of 12" speakers on the market. When I needed a 10" I recall about 3 that might work for what I needed(4 ohm). Good hunting.
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Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:47 pm

dalrymple wrote:One of the reasons you see fewer 10" speakers replaced is there are very few options available compared to a 12". Dozens of 12" speakers on the market. When I needed a 10" I recall about 3 that might work for what I needed(4 ohm). Good hunting.
Dalrymple
A 12" could possibly be installed into one of these older Classic 20 combos if you just increased the speaker hole size a bit.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Enzo » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:10 pm

People replace speakers all the time, in any model amp. But they are doing it for tone, not "headroom". A speaker is the one single most effective way to change the tone of an amp.


I'd take careful measurements before considering cramming a 12 in ther. Not only does there need tp be room on ht baffle, there are close quarters for the magnet and frame vis a vis the tubes.

In the amp, you might experiment with a 5751 tube in place of a 12AX7. A somewhat lower gain tube

Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:00 pm

So I have two Sovtek "EL84 6BQ5" tubes and a JJ "ECC81" and a JJ "ECC83 S"

Not sure why I ordered a ECC81 and a ECC83 S rather than getting two of the same. I ordered these a year or so ago. Getting this amp up and going has been on my to do list for some time. I also have new potentiometers on order from Peavey for this amp.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Classic30inCincy » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:17 am

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by ScottMarlowe » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:08 pm

Honestly if you want more headroom look into a used Classic 50. WAY more headroom and more versatile controls and such. Sure it's 65lbs or so, you aren't gonna get the kind of clean headroom it can make from a Classic 20 combo.

If you want LOTS of clean headroom, then find a Peavey Duel or Ranger for sale. 4 6L6GCs make for massive clean volume, and their crunch on the clean channel is phenomenal.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:50 pm

ScottMarlowe wrote:Honestly if you want more headroom look into a used Classic 50. WAY more headroom and more versatile controls and such. Sure it's 65lbs or so, you aren't gonna get the kind of clean headroom it can make from a Classic 20 combo.

If you want LOTS of clean headroom, then find a Peavey Duel or Ranger for sale. 4 6L6GCs make for massive clean volume, and their crunch on the clean channel is phenomenal.
I had a Classic 30 for years and barely had to touch the volume to get what I needed. It was too much power for what I needed. Before that I had a 40 watt Fender Hot Rod Deluxe that was also way to much power. So I got rid of both amps and now have the Classic 20 combo amp which is really great but not quite enough clean headroom. A Classic 50 would be waaay too much power for what I'm looking for.


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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by twangboy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:29 am

i just plug in an ext. cab. Mutes the onboard on mine.
2- 87' Falcons, 90 Falcon Standard, 91 Falcon Custom,94 Axcelerator, 95 Firenza, Patriot, 83 Impact 2, 84 Horizon 2, Prowler, Wiggy, 2 X Classic 20,Classic 30 II, VK20MH(FieldKing!), 112SX cab, Transtube Pro 100 EFX, Transtube 258EFX

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