Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

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dalrymple
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by dalrymple » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:37 am

Wont change the early breakup. Tubes first.
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Enzo
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Enzo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:10 am

A speaker cannot un-distort something coming out of the amp.

Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:45 am

twangboy wrote:i just plug in an ext. cab. Mutes the onboard on mine.
Loud enough to play club gigs?

Irving
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:46 am

Enzo wrote:A speaker cannot un-distort something coming out of the amp.
That's true. But a higher wattage speaker would have less tendency to break up at the same volumes.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by twangboy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:25 am

Irving wrote:
twangboy wrote:i just plug in an ext. cab. Mutes the onboard on mine.
Loud enough to play club gigs?
if miked. Yes you cannot get more headroom by changing the speaker. Perceived loudness maybe, but a dimed C20 is a thing of beauty.
If i'm playing a club gig i'm not taking a 20 watter
2- 87' Falcons, 90 Falcon Standard, 91 Falcon Custom,94 Axcelerator, 95 Firenza, Patriot, 83 Impact 2, 84 Horizon 2, Prowler, Wiggy, 2 X Classic 20,Classic 30 II, VK20MH(FieldKing!), 112SX cab, Transtube Pro 100 EFX, Transtube 258EFX

dalrymple
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by dalrymple » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:36 am

It seems you may be missing the point. The signal is reaching the speaker, ANY speaker, already broken up. Any speaker can only reproduce what is fed in. Feed in breakup to a 300 watt rated clean speaker, you still get the breakup. It is not emanating from the speaker, but from the signal the amp is putting out.
The process demands you clean up the signal first, then you MAY be able to get more of what you want.

After tubing the amp to play as clean as it possibly can with the right tube set up, then, and only then, do you stand a chance of achieving what you seek from this little beast of an amp. Cleaner tone at volume. Speaker swap may change the overall tone of the amp, but CANNOT do the job of cleaning up the signal being delivered to it. Clean signal>clean tone. Broken up signal> broken up tone. The speaker can only reproduce the signal it gets from the amp. This is how it works with that amp. Tubes first.

Doesnt mean you wont like a new speaker, but it means you cant make a high wattage speaker(or ANY speaker) clean up a broken up signal. It is not an eraser. It only gives voice to the signal being fed in. It may break up and give SPEAKER break up later or never, but the incoming signal determines how clean it is going to be overall from the beginning of where you can hear the tone from the amp. Dirt in, dirt out.
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by ScottMarlowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:53 am

Irving wrote:
ScottMarlowe wrote:Honestly if you want more headroom look into a used Classic 50. WAY more headroom and more versatile controls and such. Sure it's 65lbs or so, you aren't gonna get the kind of clean headroom it can make from a Classic 20 combo.

If you want LOTS of clean headroom, then find a Peavey Duel or Ranger for sale. 4 6L6GCs make for massive clean volume, and their crunch on the clean channel is phenomenal.
I had a Classic 30 for years and barely had to touch the volume to get what I needed. It was too much power for what I needed. Before that I had a 40 watt Fender Hot Rod Deluxe that was also way to much power. So I got rid of both amps and now have the Classic 20 combo amp which is really great but not quite enough clean headroom. A Classic 50 would be waaay too much power for what I'm looking for.
Unlike the Classic 30 the Classic 50 has a master volume, so you can adjust the crunch etc on the normal channel without waking all the neighbors.

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Enzo
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Enzo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:43 pm

dalrymple said it well. The speaker is not what is breaking up.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by Irving » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:50 pm

Understood on the amp/tubes being what breaks up and not the speaker. Thank you everyone for the responses. This has been great. What might be the most ideal set of tubes to allow the most clean headroom?

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by ScottMarlowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:11 pm

I'd suggest trying a 5751 in V1. I like the pick response better than most 12AX7s.

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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by GrandTourer » Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:46 pm

Surely the OP is absolutely right. A more efficient speaker will add decibels meaning he can get more volume without having to turn up the gain?

Also what’s the deal with the external speaker jack disconnecting the internal speaker? When I add my external speaker I want both speakers activated- this also would add volume.

I’m totally with the OP I loved my classic 30 but it was too powerful. The 20 however breaks up into saturation too early to play with Drummer. So the obvious answer would be change the valves get a more efficient internal speaker and add an external speaker with both speakers working.

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JamesPaul
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Re: Speaker with more headroom for a 1990s Classic 20 combo amp

Post by JamesPaul » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:33 pm

Welcome to the forum.

I think everyone on this thread will agree, a more efficient speaker will increase volume. It is likely a question of how much volume, and would it be noticable?

I think the discussion in this thread was how do I get more clean headroom? That needs to be addressed within the amplifier, because the breakup is occurring within the C20 circuit, as you have noted.

The C30's and C50's do indeed simultaneously run both internal and external speakers. They do that with a multiple tap output transformer and the external cabinet jack switching taps.

I am only theorizing, but as the multiple tap output transformers tend to cost more, Peavey may have gone with the 16 ohm only output transformer to make the C20 more affordable. Thus forcing the shutdown of the internal speaker when using an external cabinet.

These C20's will get relatively loud on a single external 412E. Please review this post.

C20 #2 on my 412E
Enzo wrote:I find if the amp is working, that is a good point to stop fixing it.
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