VR218 with what power rating

[Eddoggydogg]

To the folks who own VR218's, what amount of watts are you putting into them? Would there be a Big difference in volume/output/DB's if you put 4500 watts vs 2200 at 4 ohms into them? I always go for Program rating on speakers but with bass you just need so much more power and it drives $$$ up. Im just seeing if it is worth buying BIG amps versus not so big. Thanks


-Ed

[tmbrandis]

Ed, I run all of mine either off bridged GPS3500's or CS4000's. I have in the past run them off of CS4080's (2 VR218's per amp, one each side) and the CS4080 performed very well. I guess it all comes down to the genre of music you're running through the system and how bass heavy it is. Keep in mind that the limiters are going to be set to the continuous rating of the speakers, 1200 watts for (1) of the 18's @ 8ohms or 2400 watts for both at 4ohms. Also, use the minimum impedance for that bandwidth the subs are undertaking, in this case, 3.3ohms. With the above mentioned amps run in bridged mode, I have limiters set at +3dB.

[Marty McCann]

Ed, I run all of mine either off bridged GPS3500's or CS4000's. I have in the past run them off of CS4080's (2 VR218's per amp, one each side) and the CS4080 performed very well. I guess it all comes down to the genre of music you're running through the system and how bass heavy it is. Keep in mind that the limiters are going to be set to the continuous rating of the speakers, 1200 watts for (1) of the 18's @ 8ohms or 2400 watts for both at 4ohms. Also, use the minimum impedance for that bandwidth the subs are undertaking, in this case, 3.3ohms. With the above mentioned amps run in bridged mode, I have limiters set at +3dB.

Uh Tom, I get different numbers:

2400 x 3.3 = 7920

Sq Rt 7920 = 88.99

88.99 / 40 = 2.225

20 Log 2.225 / 0.775

2.225 / 0.775 = 2.87

Log 2.87 = 0.45788

20 x 0.45788 = 9.16 dBu (Threshold to limit at 2400 watts or 89 Volts into 3.3 Ohms).

[tmbrandis]

Amps are bridged. Input gain is doubled when amps are bridged, correct?

[jcbfomf]

I have 8 VR218's that I run at 2200 watts (2) per Pro 9200 and that is more than enough for me. In fact, when 20 VR112's are running around unity, the 8 aux fed VR218's will only be running around -7 on the console.

[SemperFiSound]

Amps are bridged. ...gain is doubled when amps are bridged, correct?

Yes.

This would be an advanced pro-typo:

88.99 / 40 = 2.225

[SemperFiSound]

I use a bridged QSC PLX-3602 per VR-218. 1800W per driver, 3600 per cabinet.
I also use a 4080, one per side, like Tom, 1020W per driver, 2040 per cabinet.

Would there be a Big difference in volume/output/DB's if you put 4500 watts vs 2200 at 4 ohms into them?

4500W vs 2200W -> 3.1 dB difference (just enough to be noticeable) so...BIG difference - NO.
But you get more headroom. Guys like that.

Cheers,
Steve

[JPM.]

I've been using 1 channel of an IT8000 on each VR218 so 4000 Watts per box. I've heard them pop with just 4000 Watts so be careful if you do get a big amp.

[Marty McCann]

Amps are bridged. Input gain is doubled when amps are bridged, correct?

I guess my glasses were dirty (again), as I failed to input the bridge mode comment.

Yes the voltage gain is doubled when in bridge mode to 80 X's.

So the math would be:

2400 x 3.3 = 7920

Sq Rt 7920 = 88.99

88.99 / 80 = 1.112

20 Log 1.112 / 0.775

1.112 / 0.775 = 1.435

Log 1.435 = 0.1568

20 x 0.1568 = 3.14 dBu (Threshold to limit at 2400 watts or 89 Volts into 3.3 Ohms).

So Tom your limiter settings are indeed correct.

[Eddoggydogg]

thanks for the info guys. This has givin me enough info to make a decision on whitch way to go. Im gonna keep stakin up on my CE 4000's. So they will be running bridged providing around 3200 watts RMS to each VR218. Any one have any VR218s for sale?

[SemperFiSound]

CS-4000, bridged, should nominally throw 4000W into the 4 Ohm load of a VR-218. It's a nice pairing. Why did you type 3200? Advanced resisitance math?

Also, when you get the VR-218s, make sure you pop off the input cup and ensure that the panel is rigged for independent addressing of the two woofers. I got 4 from a regional sound provider in MA and they were still in +1/-1 mode. He told me thought they should have been better and sold them at a VERY nice price. I had an idea, but I waited a few days and told him that during my routine inspection of used gear, I found the jumper in the wrong position. He was bummed. I got a great deal.

Best of luck!
Steve

edit: you typed CE-4000? The Crown? If so, I think she's good for 2800W Br into 4 Ohms - I could be wrong.

[Eddoggydogg]

CS-4000, bridged, should nominally throw 4000W into the 4 Ohm load of a VR-218. It's a nice pairing. Why did you type 3200? Advanced resisitance math?

Also, when you get the VR-218s, make sure you pop off the input cup and ensure that the panel is rigged for independent addressing of the two woofers. I got 4 from a regional sound provider in MA and they were still in +1/-1 mode. He told me thought they should have been better and sold them at a VERY nice price. I had an idea, but I waited a few days and told him that during my routine inspection of used gear, I found the jumper in the wrong position. He was bummed. I got a great deal.

Best of luck!
Steve

edit: you typed CE-4000? The Crown? If so, I think she's good for 2800W Br into 4 Ohms - I could be wrong.

MY bad.. I meant Crown CE-4000's and they are rated at 2800W bridged with 120v at the mains. That will be the first thing I do when I get my hands on some, wire them +1/-1 +2/-2. Thanks for the insight Steve. I will keep an eye out for some VR218's or if you know of someone selling some plz let me know. Have a great weekend!

[theozzmancometh]

I use a bridged QSC PLX-3602 per VR-218. 1800W per driver, 3600 per cabinet.
I also use a 4080, one per side, like Tom, 1020W per driver, 2040 per cabinet.

Would there be a Big difference in volume/output/DB's if you put 4500 watts vs 2200 at 4 ohms into them?

4500W vs 2200W -> 3.1 dB difference (just enough to be noticeable) so...BIG difference - NO.
But you get more headroom. Guys like that.

Cheers,
Steve

1 dB is "just enough to be noticeable". 3 dB would be quite apparant. But yes, the headroom is nice, allows for some 'punch'.

[SemperFiSound]

1 dB is "just enough to be noticeable". 3 dB would be quite apparant. But yes, the headroom is nice, allows for some 'punch'.

Negative. To the "average" listener, it takes a 3dB change for that person to acknowledge a change in perceived volume. Yes, some people's hearing is more sensitive than others, but all the references agree that 3dB is the "norm."

Cheers,
Steve

[Detonator]

http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/ac ... ness.shtml

Loudness differences depend on frequency, wave reflections, whether or not direct, immediate comparisons are made, type of sound, hearing ability of the listner, etc. etc. blah blah blah.

I've looked at meters with 3 db differences being played, and it is more than "barely noticeable". 1 db being "barely noticeable" and 3 db being "obviously noticeable" have been soft standards, for a good while, but then again, it depends...

-Tim T