OK all, I'm a big enough person to admit when I can use some help and now I could use some help....

I'm still having a problem getting my SP rig rocking like I remember it and if all of my gear, as I believe it is, is in great working order it must be me needing an overhaul.

Is there anyone near the Naperville/Chicago area with experience with the SP series willing to help me get it dialed back in????

Let me know, I'll be happy to come to you and compensate you for your time..

Thanks all.

_________________
Allen D.

My friend of 40 years Bill Robinette at Savage Pro Audio may be able to help you.

Thanks Marty, I'll look him up.

Quick question, with the SP118's, is there any difference between the BW 1801-8 & the 1808-8 besides the power handling? Will they both work well in an SP 118 enclosure? Older model to match the G series of SP's.

OK, 2 questions, what kind of boost to the highs does a CD Horn button have on the output? When I activate that button on my X-over my amp input signal really jumps and the sound is a lot more harsh....

Thanks again.

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Allen D.

Simplicity

I know you asked Marty to help you but if I could ask you a question regarding the CD horn EQ on your crossover. What brand crossover is it?

Most (if not all) CD horn circuits on crossovers are not a real CD horn equalisation circuit at all - just a high frequency boost. The reason for CD horn equalisation is both the compression drivers frequency response and that of the flare. There is no "one size fits all". With this generic high freauency boost there is little doubt that the highs sound overly bright and just not right!

Regards

Steve

Hello Allen,

Regarding the BW replacement basket question please see the thread (below) that I just answered on the subject. Well it may not stay below however it is there somewhere.

You did not state what model X-Over you have but to add to what Steve said about one size does not fit all . . . .

I have checked out the CD horn EQ circuits in available from several manufacturers, and some are not very good at all. I am sorry to report that even one (not all) of our previous ones could have been better suited to say an SP-2 system.

The fact is that the necessary CD horn EQ would be different for every compression driver and secondly for every driver on every possible horn that it could be mounted on, and thirdly with a different setting for any woofer chosen to mate with that horn/driver combination.

Some CD horn EQ's merely provide a 1st order +6 dB per octave boost above where ever the X-Over point is selected. This then does NOT provide the needed pad above the X-Over point.
Below are three URL's to articles from out Tech Notes section that will provide additional information.
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... orn_eq.cfm

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... r101_a.cfm

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... r102_a.cfm


When you go and meet Bill, ask him where his band is playing and go see him. He is considered by many other bass players to be the best in Chicago (from the Jaco Pastorius school).

OK, so here's an update.

1st I still haven't had the time to get in touch with your friend Marty, but I will.

I did take the whole rig to a company I work with and is an authorized Peavey repair depot and we've determined my x-over is a POS! As much as I am embarrased to admit it was/is a Behringer that I bought from a company I worked with years ago doing sound and they swore it was the shiznit, WRONG!

It's output is crap and you CANNOT get an even signal to the highs and lows. In running my white noise through my rig, I ahve to turn the high output on the x-over all the way down and it's still sending the amps into clipping while I boost the low output and barely flicker my -10 lights UGH!

There is very little sensitivity in this piece of garbage and big adjustments make very little difference, it's certainly not a precise piece of gear.

It is very clear why now I've popped 4 BW18's in a year or so when in the past 15 years I'd blown them 1x and that was actually after a winter event, I didn't let them properly cool and loaded into the trailer and they crystalized.

Also, I've noticed that that x-over really colors the sound and all but kills the vocal range regardless of the x-over freq. Remove the x-over from the chain and BAM, power.

I've attached a few pics for your viewing pleasure. In pic 007 you'll notice the highs 100% cut and the lows 100% boosted on the x-over and look at the 2nd amp, the lows are barely lighting the -20 signal LED's and the high are throwing the LED's into solid clipping. I even boosted the lower frequencies on the eq and still couldn't get much input.

In pic 009, you'll notice the high and low output are the same, now take a look at the signal LED's on the amps These were taken with no speakers attached and -9db white noise. All cables are good and checked out, entire signal chain is balanced and matching cables.

I had the DRPA and really never liked it but I think maybe it's because I expected it to work magically and I expected too much from it with not putting much into it. So I sold it and as a result KILLED 4 subs Now it's onto looking into the VSX, I jsut want to find one locally I can play with before I buy.

Marty, in regards to replacing an 1801 with an 1808, where can I get the info to see how well they're matched to my SP118 cabs? I do like the idea of higher power capability but not at a cost of robbing me of sound quality. I'm wondering if they're close enough of a match to use or not.


Thanks.

_________________
Allen D.

Hi Allen

I usually don't get into brand bashing mainly because in most cases there is a place for the budget as well as the more expensive. Just to give you an idea: A large Church here in Australia had installed a Martin PA system. Martin are a high quality company. Due to monetary constraints the Church board decided to substitute the Martin processor with a Behringer crossover etc.

The system never sounded any good no matter what you did. We then borrowed the Martin processor and the difference was night and day. However the cost became the issue and the board could not be convinced.

In your situation quality processors (crossover/graphics etc) will make such a difference. The quality brands usually last longer and definately have a much better reasle value. Behringer doesn't sell very well on the used market.

Regards

Steve

You are exactly right Steve.

I'm looking into all the DSP's again, I just need to find a VSX locally to check out.

_________________
Allen D.

Allen,

Are you sure that your test signal is "White" noise and not "Pink" noise? If it is indeed white noise, you have been using the wrong test signal. White noise has +24 dB more energy at 20 kHz tha n at 80 Hz.

White noise is all of the frequencies at one time with equal amplitude or voltage level. Since there are more frequencies between 10 kHz and 20 Khz (10,000 freqs) than between 100 Hz and 200 Hz (100 freqs), the energy in white noise is greater in the higher octave bands.

This is why we actually use Pink noise for loudspeaker and system measurements. Pink noise starts out as White noise but it is filter to where the highs are rolled of at a rate of -3 dB per octave. This results in a statistically "Flat" signal (Pink) with equal energy in each octave band.

Also white noise is the random action of electronics vibrating in the copper foils of the circuit boards them selves. This is why if you boost every gain stage of a mixer, but NOT the EQ, you will here a hiss, which is white noise.

FYI, our VSX-26 and VSX-48 DSP units have a signal generator the produces sinewave, white noise, and pink noise.

CRAP! I am pretty sure i did run both through but I know those pics were with white noise.

OK, here's where I need to forget my bad knowledge and habits and re-learn so here's a question prefaced by a statement. I was always taught and pretty sure I've read to calibrate signal flow with white noise, is that then not accurate?

I'm using the Bink CD and here's the description he wrote for the white noise track http://binkster.net/extras.shtml

"Track 56: White noise: This track has equal energy at every Hz. It can be used to calibrate levels of various pieces of gear not including speakers. It sounds much too bright for use as a main EQ setting tool and can damage HF drivers. This track has an average RMS power of -9.03 dB and a peak amplitude of -2.57 dB"

I'm certainly not questioning your knowledge but I do want to learn, is the above incorrect?

Thanks Marty.

Any word on where I can get the compatability info on the 1801 and 1808 to see how close a match they are and if it will work ok in my cabinet?

_________________
Allen D.

I know Bink quite well, his moniker is from the Clown "Bink" in movie Shakes the Clown which was a Film Noir Comedy about an alcoholic clown.

Although white noise can be used as a type of test signal, it can not be used when you are dealing with levels in different spectrum bandpasses, as in your case with the X-Over. Try it again with pink noise. Also, Pink noise is only flat within the electronics domain. When dealing with different transducers such as woofers, the sensitivity at 1 Watt at 1 Meter is part of equation, as well as for compression drivers on horns, which also vary due to the possible need of CD Horn EQ.

There is one 1801-8, but there are three 1808-8's:

1801 - 8 BW
W Peak: 1400
W Prog: 700
W RMS: 350
Sen: 97.5
Revc: 3.72
Sd: 0.1237
BL: 14.72
Fo: 37.3
Vas: 335.6
Cms: 154.4
Mms: 117.8
Qms: 8.188
Qes: 0.474
Qts: 0.448
Xmax: 2.6
Le: 0.2
No %: 3.57
Vd: 39.2 / 642
Disp: 228 / 3737


1808-8 SPS BWX
W Peak: 2000
W Prog: 1000
W RMS: 500
Sen: 97.5
Revc: 6.71
Sd: 0.1237
BL: 16.26
Fo: 37.4
Vas: 368
Cms: 169.4
Mms: 106.7
Qms: 7.545
Qes: 0.637
Qts: 0.587
Xmax: 4.6
Le: 0.38
No %: 2.94
Vd: 69.4 / 1138
Disp: 228 / 3737

1808-8 CU BWX
W Peak: 2000
W Prog: 1000
W RMS: 500
Sen: 97.7
Revc: 5.93
Sd: 0.1237
BL: 23.12
Fo: 35.1
Vas: 312.7
Cms: 143.9
Mms: 143.2
Qms: 9.934
Qes: 0.35
Qts: 0.338
Xmax: 4.6
Le: 0.66
No %: 3.73
Vd: 69.4 / 1138
Disp: 228 /3737


1808-8 HE BWX
W Peak: 2000
W Prog: 1000
W RMS: 500
Sen: 97.5
Revc: 5.1
Sd: 0.1237
BL: 17.77
Fo: 39.9
Vas: 281.5
Cms: 129.6
Mms: 122.6
Qms: 9.954
Qes: 0.497
Qts: 0.473
Xmax: 2.0
Le: 0.32
No %: 3.5
Vd: 29.5 / 483
Disp: 228 / 3737

Thanks Marty, I'll go back again and look into it, I know I did run pink noise through it but can't remember what the results were. Thanks for the advanced learning.

Also, thanks for the BW specs. Now can you explain how to interprete the numbers? Some I recognize and others I don't or is there an article you wrote abuot deciphering theile/small data?

_________________
Allen D.

Sorry Allen,

But my crib sheet for Thiele/Small went to cyber heaven when my last laptop crashed.

You can Google T/S parameters, and find some resources. I think Semper Fi Steve my have some data Re T/S. He'll chime in if he does.

man, been there, done that sorry for your losss, LOL!

Thanks Marty. I'll see if Steve has info and I'll do some surfing too.

_________________
Allen D.

Yeah, I know it's Wikipedia, but given the intricacies, this most probably issn't made up;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small